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[Music]

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welcome to shattered reality with your

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hosts Kate Valentine and furs prepare to

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have your paradigm shifted in the truths

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questioned and now shattered reality hey

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Kate

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hello Lucia how are you I'm doing pretty

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well and here we are again in the

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summertime now it's the summertime and

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we're here on shattered reality podcast

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mm-hmm and you want to slate the day

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today's 7-eleven 7-eleven how about in

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seven eleven seventeen very lucky number

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yet says it's a sort of a palindrome

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almost it is it is indeed so today we

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are fortunate enough to have a very

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interesting fellow he is like a

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Renaissance man

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his name is Michael J Reddy he is a PhD

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he has done medical and cognitive

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research at the University of Chicago

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and at Columbia University where he also

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taught his PhD is in cognitive

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linguistics of the English language from

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the University of Chicago his Bachelor

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of Science is from the University of

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Santa Clara in philosophy and physics in

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addition he had a seven-year

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apprenticeship and shamanic healing and

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worked with a person who is a big

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favorite of mine son bear and before

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Michael gets off the phone with us I

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have to ask him about an experience that

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I had with son bear once but one of the

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things that he's going to talk about

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today is what is one of the things he's

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doing currently he has studied advanced

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German conversation and has been

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certified in basic and advanced systemic

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constellation training

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which is commonly known as family

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constellation therapy so Michael are you

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here with us I am and glad to be here

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thanks Michael

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you don't mind us calling you Michael I

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mean we both man Michael on a personal

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level so I've taken the liberty of

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calling him Michael is ok with you

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Michael is great but he's also doctor

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ready just so you know any anyhow tell

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us about the songs that you're gonna

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sing at least tell us about the first

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one and then we'll talk about the

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history of the second one ok

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about four years ago Bob Schwartz and I

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Bob is executive director of the

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Association for comprehensive energy

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psychology we've formed a duo and

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started writing and singing songs to

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introduce keynote speeches at the yearly

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conferences of the Association for

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comprehensive energy psychology and

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we've now I've been we've done this at

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ions conference and I also did this

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recently at the Society for scientific

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education and this this is kind of one

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of the favorite songs this is Bob

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Dylan's the times they are a-changin

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which was a powerful song in the 60s but

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the times really didn't change and I've

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rewritten it as the paradigm is it

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skeptics energies that you cannot so you

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[Music]

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don't physicists really let's drop the

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charade when no one is looking wave is

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arrayed only when you observe it a

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particle is made time and space they're

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not fundamental you might have to let

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consciousness join the parade or the

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paradigm interchange cosmologists up

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there with all your big bucks or down in

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my lucia where string theory plucks for

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a billion years distant while we stay

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sitting ducks ecosystems collapsing

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around us won't have a planet to study

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that flux for the

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how mainstream come media it's time to

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wake up you can't drink the truth from

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the corporate Cup institutional science

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now really holds up the growth of new

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knowledge and wisdom

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if you drop some of the dogmas new

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truths which show up for the paradigm

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interchange abattoir we hear now on

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others to pound not everyone sees yet

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the new things we've found on the

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shoulders of giants we sing this new

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sound and all have their place in the

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music some must be child while some

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it's a change

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it's attained

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[Music]

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thank you thank you Michael very nice so

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that you know that's a really

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interesting take on the paradigm

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shifting that we talked about so much on

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shattered reality podcast I know that

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your second song revolves around someone

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who had very famously a near-death

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experience a person that I'm very very

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vaguely acquainted with from the Monroe

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Institute so maybe you'd like to just

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encapsulate the story of who it is yes

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certainly

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um so eben Alexander is I believe a

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Harvard trained neurosurgeon who's had

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appointments in a number of different

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hospitals and in 2008 he was he was

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somehow infected with gram-negative B

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coli bacteria and it literally dissolved

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his cortex and he was in a coma for

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something like a week and the hospital

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declared him dead and while he was quote

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dead unquote he was having a you know

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what we call a near-death an NDE and

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near-death experience and he spent

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something like four years thinking about

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it I mean it took him a while to recover

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after he came back and he wrote a book

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called proof of heaven a neuro surgeons

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journey into the afterlife which has

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become a big bestseller and he's been

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all over the world now we had him as a

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keynote speaker

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I guess at ACF maybe three years ago so

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I wrote this song to kind of honor his

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journey and this is how we introduced

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him Association for comprehensive energy

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psychology it's it's interesting to be

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there for the keynotes because we

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typically try to write some kind of

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songs or something that either you know

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are humorous or poignant or something

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this one is this one

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is really just a complete record of his

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experience and he was attacked by by by

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the media and different at different

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times uh by skeptics who didn't believe

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his story I just want to add that but go

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ahead no he's no don't be sorry

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he's he's definitely been attacked and

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the song chronicles that part of it is

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well it started some virus my cortex got

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pride went to this dark place and then

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towards the light some girl on a

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butterfly flew to my consciousness

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consciousness so how can this be where

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still I think all as well my cortex shut

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down and there's some missing link baby

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the source of my mind the more like the

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filter for a light unrefined singing

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consciousness consciousness so I really

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but are we really well I researched and

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pondered and wondered and from it seems

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like my worldview had turned upside down

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if neurons came last and awareness was

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first that meant my Newtonian bubble had

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burst

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singing consciousness consciousness oh

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that's what I maybe that's what we all

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are

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well I rolled up my journey and boy did

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it sell but right away skeptics and

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cynics all yelled you don't prove a

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thing and it's probably faked

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consciousness first and it must be

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half-baked singing paradigms paradigms

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Monday such fun they shape what we see

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well I'll stick to my message I'll stick

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to my guns

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we're far is the fabric of which we are

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knit it's the only hypothesis that seems

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to fit

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singing consciousness consciousness soul

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that's what we that was very lovely

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thank you thank you yeah that was fun

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right

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yeah what's cool y'all go ahead please

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first well there's a few things that we

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want to talk about one of them is your

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family constellation therapy work and

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the other is your connection to

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shamanism and so why don't we start with

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the family constellation work and let us

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ask you I know the the founder was a

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priest named Bert Hellinger I believe in

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Germany is that correct

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yes it is I mean he's a synthesizer

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really he came to the United States and

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picked up a lot of what he put into

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family constellations actually from

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therapists in the United States and he's

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he deserves great recognition as a

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synthesizer but at the same time he did

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not invent this out of whole cloth well

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and for those of us unfamiliar with it

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could you just give a definition because

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I'm not really quite sure what you mean

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by it you you can describe family

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constellations quickly in a number of

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ways it's it's a tool for revealing and

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realigning hidden loyalties and family

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systems and when we talk about family

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systems now we're right in your

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shattered reality ballpark because we're

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talking about transgenerational psychic

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organisms now when you talk about family

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is that in specifically family or just

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people that are close to you or what

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what is the relationship it's it starts

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with ancestors but it can extend any

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time some kind of profound bond is

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formed that shapes the life of a family

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then the people that get bonded that way

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tend to become

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of this family soul or family system for

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example combat buddies that you know die

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or people well let's just stick with

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that one but so it can expand past

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actual yeah biological families but it

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but ancestors are sort of the key to

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this is that correct your voice is just

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a little fuzzy I'm sorry yeah ancestors

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are just the key to this ancestors are

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the key I mean it's sort of the basic

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the key unit the key to it ancestors are

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the primary yeah there's two kinds of

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trauma in the world there's the kind you

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experience yourself and there's the kind

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that your ancestors experienced and

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never dealt with and that that energy

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stays in this transgenerational family

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system and it comes up in later

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generations there's some epic there's

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there's increasing evidence in

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epigenetics for the transmission of this

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kind of stuff but a lot of it is just

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it's psychic you know looking out at

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what I've researched on the web about

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this subject some people bring it into a

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very psychic realm I mean some

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therapists tend to bring it into a very

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psychic realm while others seem to you

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know work with it more or less as

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transactional psychology if that's a

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good description don't worry do you find

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that there that the group of family

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constellation therapists fall on one

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side or the other of that equation

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um they fall all over the place frankly

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okay family constellations is a fairly

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new modality it's it's in almost every

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country of the world it lags a lot in

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North America because we're very

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individualistic here and we're

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rootless in the sense that we're mostly

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immigrants you know several generations

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back in any case so there are people who

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regard family I mean when you look at

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how a constellation looks it looks like

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unscripted in the workshop form it looks

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like unscripted psychodrama oK you've

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got people standing up and someone

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someone presents an issue a problem and

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the inner the facilitator interviews

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that person briefly and and sets up what

277
00:18:00,659 --> 00:17:57,850
he or she thinks are likely roots of the

278
00:18:02,970 --> 00:18:00,669
problem so you you might have someone

279
00:18:06,779 --> 00:18:02,980
representing the grandfather and someone

280
00:18:10,230 --> 00:18:06,789
else representing an uncle and this is a

281
00:18:14,580 --> 00:18:10,240
in this form this becomes a kind of

282
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:14,590
group channeling it's quite fascinating

283
00:18:21,060 --> 00:18:19,690
almost I'm never seen there are people

284
00:18:24,390 --> 00:18:21,070
who come into these kind of workshops

285
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:24,400
very skeptical and at the same time they

286
00:18:31,909 --> 00:18:27,850
start to do this they in some sense

287
00:18:35,250 --> 00:18:31,919
share their awareness with an ancestor

288
00:18:38,279 --> 00:18:35,260
it's an amazing thing to watch it's very

289
00:18:42,779 --> 00:18:38,289
very interesting and what we're trying

290
00:18:44,190 --> 00:18:42,789
to do is to sort out the fates of the I

291
00:18:46,799 --> 00:18:44,200
hope I'm not going too fast but we're

292
00:18:50,130 --> 00:18:46,809
trying to sort out the fates of the

293
00:18:54,390 --> 00:18:50,140
people in the family if if if my

294
00:18:57,380 --> 00:18:54,400
grandfather was teaching explosives it

295
00:19:01,310 --> 00:18:57,390
wasn't but if he was teaching explosives

296
00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:01,320
in in a World War one or something and

297
00:19:07,890 --> 00:19:05,200
he got he you know a faulty grenade blew

298
00:19:09,659 --> 00:19:07,900
up and it crippled him and he came home

299
00:19:11,460 --> 00:19:09,669
instead of being a hero he came home

300
00:19:14,070 --> 00:19:11,470
kind of a buffoon because he was an

301
00:19:16,649 --> 00:19:14,080
instructor and he couldn't even handle a

302
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:16,659
grenade it wasn't his fault

303
00:19:23,430 --> 00:19:20,890
and then I may well be somebody as a

304
00:19:27,529 --> 00:19:23,440
grandson who has a lot of trouble giving

305
00:19:31,740 --> 00:19:27,539
public speeches because in my in my

306
00:19:35,100 --> 00:19:31,750
inheritance is a kind of sentence that

307
00:19:35,549 --> 00:19:35,110
says public speeches can you all

308
00:19:37,409 --> 00:19:35,559
right

309
00:19:40,950 --> 00:19:37,419
that makes sense did I go too fast only

310
00:19:43,259 --> 00:19:40,960
it made sense but only I think where

311
00:19:47,210 --> 00:19:43,269
that was a little missing link in there

312
00:19:49,529 --> 00:19:47,220
was that the grandfather was giving an

313
00:19:54,029 --> 00:19:49,539
instruction in the form of the speech to

314
00:19:56,430 --> 00:19:54,039
a group of soldiers is why yes so that

315
00:19:59,009 --> 00:19:56,440
part was missing but other than that I

316
00:20:01,440 --> 00:19:59,019
think that we've gotten it now one thing

317
00:20:04,919 --> 00:20:01,450
I want to say right off the bat and that

318
00:20:07,940 --> 00:20:04,929
is that Michael has a book dr. Michael

319
00:20:11,549 --> 00:20:07,950
ready health happiness and family

320
00:20:14,820 --> 00:20:11,559
constellations how ancestors family

321
00:20:18,060 --> 00:20:14,830
systems and hidden loyalties shape your

322
00:20:22,710 --> 00:20:18,070
life and what you can do about it you is

323
00:20:28,580 --> 00:20:22,720
emphasized so perhaps you'll tell us how

324
00:20:31,799 --> 00:20:28,590
you got into this in 2008 I developed

325
00:20:34,799 --> 00:20:31,809
sensory neuropathies in my feet kind of

326
00:20:37,109 --> 00:20:34,809
out of the blue and they got really bad

327
00:20:40,769 --> 00:20:37,119
and I tried about five different

328
00:20:44,009 --> 00:20:40,779
alternative therapies acupuncture and I

329
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:44,019
had a regular therapist homeopathy and

330
00:20:47,850 --> 00:20:46,090
nothing was working and I finally went

331
00:20:50,549 --> 00:20:47,860
to mainstream medicine which I am loathe

332
00:20:53,759 --> 00:20:50,559
to do but I did and they just put me on

333
00:20:56,639 --> 00:20:53,769
some kind of stuff that I had to get off

334
00:21:03,149 --> 00:20:56,649
of it didn't really help it was it was

335
00:21:05,639 --> 00:21:03,159
some kind of steroid you know it was

336
00:21:10,049 --> 00:21:05,649
medicine for psychological problems

337
00:21:12,419 --> 00:21:10,059
anxiety medicine and so wait wait your

338
00:21:15,389 --> 00:21:12,429
feet hurt and they gave you anxiety

339
00:21:17,190 --> 00:21:15,399
medication they don't know what to do

340
00:21:24,919 --> 00:21:17,200
with what they call idiopathic

341
00:21:28,289 --> 00:21:24,929
neuropathy so I didn't I'm sorry okay so

342
00:21:29,669 --> 00:21:28,299
your feet were bothering what how no

343
00:21:31,769 --> 00:21:29,679
when you say if you were bothering you I

344
00:21:33,989 --> 00:21:31,779
mean obviously there's it can be really

345
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:33,999
serious pain like plantar fasciitis and

346
00:21:38,730 --> 00:21:36,610
so on which I've had and it's no joy and

347
00:21:41,399 --> 00:21:38,740
there is absolutely no treat before it

348
00:21:43,740 --> 00:21:41,409
does in time but I mean what was your

349
00:21:46,470 --> 00:21:43,750
pain like it was like your whole foot

350
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:46,480
hurt or it was Walker

351
00:21:51,330 --> 00:21:48,490
it was the hot

352
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:51,340
cold stinging Bernie's okay and they

353
00:21:58,110 --> 00:21:55,690
they got really bad really bad and high

354
00:22:00,840 --> 00:21:58,120
I wasn't sure I even wanted to live

355
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:00,850
anymore cuz vicodin and other things

356
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:03,250
like that didn't really help and it was

357
00:22:10,260 --> 00:22:08,050
constant it came in spells came this

358
00:22:13,470 --> 00:22:10,270
spells at last 18 hours or so until I

359
00:22:17,299 --> 00:22:13,480
whoa whoa that's a pretty long yes it

360
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:17,309
was long and I read a book that said

361
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:21,850
that this might not be mine that this

362
00:22:27,060 --> 00:22:24,610
might belong to an ancestor and it

363
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:27,070
suddenly dawned on me that my mother had

364
00:22:31,980 --> 00:22:29,890
told me that my father had terrible

365
00:22:34,890 --> 00:22:31,990
trouble with his feet in the Pacific in

366
00:22:37,230 --> 00:22:34,900
World War two mm-hmm and I just had this

367
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:37,240
big flash and I got somebody to drive me

368
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:39,850
down to South Carolina in a workshop

369
00:22:44,940 --> 00:22:42,730
where the guy that had written the book

370
00:22:49,350 --> 00:22:44,950
was leading the workshop and I had this

371
00:22:51,660 --> 00:22:49,360
constellation in which I basically gave

372
00:22:54,470 --> 00:22:51,670
back I mean I was care my father became

373
00:22:58,230 --> 00:22:54,480
an alcoholic and he never dealt with his

374
00:23:00,270 --> 00:22:58,240
experiences in the war there was no help

375
00:23:06,299 --> 00:23:00,280
back then did you understand me I mean

376
00:23:08,700 --> 00:23:06,309
they barely existed then right and I I

377
00:23:11,370 --> 00:23:08,710
had kind of a mystical experience and I

378
00:23:14,850 --> 00:23:11,380
actually ended up taking a walk in a

379
00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:14,860
graveyard after this constellation and

380
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:18,130
had I it's hard I mean it's written in

381
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:20,290
the prologue of the book it was a very

382
00:23:26,310 --> 00:23:23,850
profound experience and I just felt this

383
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:26,320
honestly the truth is I felt all these

384
00:23:31,890 --> 00:23:30,250
these people in these graves saying to

385
00:23:33,919 --> 00:23:31,900
me listen you need to stay on the planet

386
00:23:36,630 --> 00:23:33,929
and learn how to do this and try to help

387
00:23:39,060 --> 00:23:36,640
mm-hmm

388
00:23:41,340 --> 00:23:39,070
and it took took maybe two or three

389
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:41,350
months but the neuropathies basically

390
00:23:46,620 --> 00:23:43,770
went away on their own after that mm-hmm

391
00:23:49,380 --> 00:23:46,630
but but I was living my father's faith I

392
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:49,390
mean he he never he never dealt with his

393
00:23:54,270 --> 00:23:51,130
experience do you understand me he just

394
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:54,280
drowned himself in alcohol and that

395
00:23:59,790 --> 00:23:56,170
experience stayed in the family system

396
00:24:02,280 --> 00:23:59,800
and as his oldest son I held it for him

397
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:02,290
it's it it's a bonding

398
00:24:09,420 --> 00:24:04,330
that happens I think when your very very

399
00:24:12,590 --> 00:24:09,430
little very very young hmm I've seen

400
00:24:15,150 --> 00:24:12,600
things of this nature in my work with

401
00:24:17,820 --> 00:24:15,160
clients doing intuitive and psychic

402
00:24:21,830 --> 00:24:17,830
readings that sometimes they carry

403
00:24:25,380 --> 00:24:21,840
forward issues from their family group

404
00:24:29,550 --> 00:24:25,390
particularly immigrants do this a lot

405
00:24:32,730 --> 00:24:29,560
maybe almost more than general Americans

406
00:24:34,830 --> 00:24:32,740
but that might be that may or may not be

407
00:24:38,580 --> 00:24:34,840
true might just be my area of the

408
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:38,590
experience that being said perhaps you

409
00:24:49,110 --> 00:24:44,890
would like to describe how a session

410
00:24:52,290 --> 00:24:49,120
what with one person might go in other

411
00:24:55,230 --> 00:24:52,300
words I understand from your book that

412
00:24:57,630 --> 00:24:55,240
there are generally a group of people

413
00:25:01,050 --> 00:24:57,640
anywhere from six to thirty people that

414
00:25:03,330 --> 00:25:01,060
gather in a circle in it's in this sort

415
00:25:06,740 --> 00:25:03,340
of it is a type of group therapy we'd

416
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:06,750
have to say but what sets it apart and

417
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:08,890
how does it proceed

418
00:25:15,180 --> 00:25:12,610
well there's this comes in two forms the

419
00:25:17,190 --> 00:25:15,190
one of them is the group form and it

420
00:25:20,790 --> 00:25:17,200
looks like unscripted psychodrama

421
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:20,800
basically the other way is in private

422
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:25,930
sessions you basically set up objects

423
00:25:31,260 --> 00:25:28,210
now I'm a shaman so I call them object

424
00:25:33,330 --> 00:25:31,270
persons which is like you know the

425
00:25:35,820 --> 00:25:33,340
Native Americans my teachers would talk

426
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:35,830
about the stone people and the plant

427
00:25:43,410 --> 00:25:38,650
people and little little household

428
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:43,420
objects get set up in a pattern and you

429
00:25:49,500 --> 00:25:46,090
and the client take turns going and

430
00:25:52,950 --> 00:25:49,510
playing this child's game of pretending

431
00:25:56,910 --> 00:25:52,960
to be whoever it is that that little

432
00:25:59,850 --> 00:25:56,920
object is representing so if you go over

433
00:26:02,520 --> 00:25:59,860
and you stand next to your dad's little

434
00:26:04,550 --> 00:26:02,530
object person you you try to become your

435
00:26:07,970 --> 00:26:04,560
dad and you try to look at the other

436
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:07,980
other object persons the other

437
00:26:14,070 --> 00:26:10,450
representatives in the constellation as

438
00:26:15,580 --> 00:26:14,080
if you were dad so I'm not Michael I'm

439
00:26:18,850 --> 00:26:15,590
dad

440
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:18,860
and I get I get my clients doing this I

441
00:26:23,290 --> 00:26:20,570
tell them it's a child game we're just

442
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:23,300
playing dolls and so much of what I

443
00:26:30,370 --> 00:26:25,850
learned around shamanism was very

444
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:30,380
childlike it's so too simple for for a

445
00:26:34,780 --> 00:26:32,810
lot of us to you know us educated people

446
00:26:38,710 --> 00:26:34,790
to deal with very easily but you

447
00:26:40,630 --> 00:26:38,720
basically feel into being that that

448
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:40,640
person and you have this array of

449
00:26:46,090 --> 00:26:42,890
objects set out in some kind of pattern

450
00:26:49,570 --> 00:26:46,100
and as the constellation develops and

451
00:26:52,540 --> 00:26:49,580
you and the client take turns feeling

452
00:26:55,060 --> 00:26:52,550
into being different parts of the system

453
00:26:58,180 --> 00:26:55,070
you begin to get a sense of what the

454
00:27:00,640 --> 00:26:58,190
larger system is doing like where who's

455
00:27:03,550 --> 00:27:00,650
holding what who who what are the

456
00:27:06,700 --> 00:27:03,560
secrets what what needs to happen for

457
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:06,710
the goal that the client came in with to

458
00:27:12,010 --> 00:27:09,050
become realizable as opposed to all

459
00:27:15,070 --> 00:27:12,020
blocked what sense am I making is this

460
00:27:18,490 --> 00:27:15,080
good so far yes it's good I wonder if

461
00:27:21,010 --> 00:27:18,500
you could give examples of maybe two or

462
00:27:23,620 --> 00:27:21,020
three or more types of goals people

463
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:23,630
might typically either come to the group

464
00:27:29,500 --> 00:27:25,690
session or the personal session with

465
00:27:32,830 --> 00:27:29,510
well a very common one is I've got some

466
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:32,840
kind of illness I've got like Michael's

467
00:27:41,340 --> 00:27:36,050
my neuropathies or I had a I had a

468
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:41,350
person with with cancer and we set up

469
00:27:45,070 --> 00:27:43,730
now this is this is not a private

470
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:45,080
constellation do you want a private

471
00:27:48,850 --> 00:27:46,850
constellation or a workshop or does it

472
00:27:52,260 --> 00:27:48,860
matter it doesn't really matter we just

473
00:27:57,580 --> 00:27:52,270
want to know um how this modality works

474
00:28:00,550 --> 00:27:57,590
this was a group and we set up a mother

475
00:28:02,110 --> 00:28:00,560
the clients mother we you you set up a

476
00:28:04,930 --> 00:28:02,120
representative for the client the client

477
00:28:07,630 --> 00:28:04,940
sits next to you and watches so that the

478
00:28:10,900 --> 00:28:07,640
client can get a sense of looking at the

479
00:28:12,790 --> 00:28:10,910
system from the outside and it may be at

480
00:28:16,210 --> 00:28:12,800
the end you'll put the client into in

481
00:28:19,330 --> 00:28:16,220
for the representative but often

482
00:28:21,420 --> 00:28:19,340
sometimes not anyway we set up her the

483
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:21,430
clients mother we set up a grandmother

484
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:25,850
who had lived in some town in Germany

485
00:28:33,770 --> 00:28:31,640
and I also set up the cancer I had a

486
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:33,780
representative for the cancer so the

487
00:28:39,140 --> 00:28:35,850
cancer was like a being in other words

488
00:28:44,450 --> 00:28:39,150
the cancer was where were personifying

489
00:28:48,770 --> 00:28:44,460
everything here and we set up a woman

490
00:28:50,510 --> 00:28:48,780
who was the cancer and the cancer when

491
00:28:52,370 --> 00:28:50,520
we watch that in this kind of

492
00:28:55,670 --> 00:28:52,380
constellation we're watching the

493
00:28:58,820 --> 00:28:55,680
behavior of the representatives and this

494
00:29:02,330 --> 00:28:58,830
happens slowly it happens without a lot

495
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:02,340
of words in some cases it might take an

496
00:29:08,540 --> 00:29:04,410
hour and a half or two hours to develop

497
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:08,550
but the cancer was the cancer was the

498
00:29:14,390 --> 00:29:11,490
the person representing the cancer kept

499
00:29:17,780 --> 00:29:14,400
coming around and seeming like she was

500
00:29:21,860 --> 00:29:17,790
trying to protect the person who had the

501
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:21,870
cancer and so of course we start to ask

502
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:25,410
you know what what is this disease doing

503
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:28,650
what is it here for and in this case

504
00:29:33,020 --> 00:29:31,290
this went back to this town in Germany I

505
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:33,030
don't know if I can remember all the

506
00:29:38,150 --> 00:29:35,810
details but there was the grandmother

507
00:29:43,490 --> 00:29:38,160
something happened to the grandmother in

508
00:29:49,510 --> 00:29:43,500
Germany and she was very very she was

509
00:29:54,260 --> 00:29:49,520
ostracized and you know sort of cast out

510
00:30:01,160 --> 00:29:54,270
and the the cancer was trying to somehow

511
00:30:03,170 --> 00:30:01,170
get get this get the grandmother deal

512
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:03,180
with the issues that the grandmother had

513
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:07,650
never dealt with I don't know this is

514
00:30:11,210 --> 00:30:09,330
kind of hard to talk about and I may not

515
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:11,220
be making as much sense as I would like

516
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:16,290
but the resolution of this was in fact

517
00:30:24,470 --> 00:30:21,330
that we had to go back and I mean this

518
00:30:28,970 --> 00:30:24,480
gets complicated folks we've had to go

519
00:30:32,210 --> 00:30:28,980
back and help the soul of this

520
00:30:35,780 --> 00:30:32,220
grandmother who had suffered greatly and

521
00:30:38,870 --> 00:30:35,790
had never never happened helped with it

522
00:30:41,330 --> 00:30:38,880
never had any clarity around it

523
00:30:42,740 --> 00:30:41,340
should I keep on going on yeah yeah I

524
00:30:45,470 --> 00:30:42,750
was just thinking the person

525
00:30:47,510 --> 00:30:45,480
had the cancer had no direct connection

526
00:30:50,780 --> 00:30:47,520
with the grandmother I mean she had

527
00:30:53,990 --> 00:30:50,790
already passed on she would yes she had

528
00:30:56,390 --> 00:30:54,000
passed on this this one was very bonded

529
00:30:59,510 --> 00:30:56,400
to this grandmother oh she will new her

530
00:31:02,870 --> 00:30:59,520
in other words they were that was her

531
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:02,880
favorite ancestor okay I mean but did

532
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:03,570
she

533
00:31:12,860 --> 00:31:09,450
her or not the grandma was still alive

534
00:31:14,330 --> 00:31:12,870
when this person who had the cancer well

535
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:14,340
the person who had the cancer was in her

536
00:31:19,070 --> 00:31:16,890
60s so the grandmother was gone right

537
00:31:21,740 --> 00:31:19,080
but as a child this woman did know the

538
00:31:24,290 --> 00:31:21,750
grandmother yeah okay okay so you sort

539
00:31:27,590 --> 00:31:24,300
of have to have it can't be like a

540
00:31:33,290 --> 00:31:27,600
distant ancestor that you never met it

541
00:31:35,750 --> 00:31:33,300
might be oh but she had a close bond to

542
00:31:37,670 --> 00:31:35,760
this lady that was ostracized and was

543
00:31:40,370 --> 00:31:37,680
suffering and couldn't really resolve

544
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:40,380
that issue was she being shunned like in

545
00:31:45,860 --> 00:31:43,650
that in the typical European manner this

546
00:31:47,810 --> 00:31:45,870
was this was breast I'm trying to

547
00:31:51,020 --> 00:31:47,820
remember this this was breast cancer I

548
00:31:54,220 --> 00:31:51,030
believe and this this grandmother had

549
00:31:58,730 --> 00:31:54,230
had a child out of wedlock and had been

550
00:32:02,570 --> 00:31:58,740
ostracized and the the the you know the

551
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:02,580
connection was around you know Maternity

552
00:32:08,870 --> 00:32:05,130
basically was around okay

553
00:32:10,670 --> 00:32:08,880
but what we're trying to do this gets

554
00:32:13,460 --> 00:32:10,680
into what happens after people die I

555
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:13,470
mean I think is you you guys probably

556
00:32:18,620 --> 00:32:15,210
have talked about people don't just

557
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:18,630
disappear when they die their souls if

558
00:32:23,930 --> 00:32:21,090
they have entanglements if they're if

559
00:32:25,940 --> 00:32:23,940
they're if they've got children and

560
00:32:29,810 --> 00:32:25,950
grandchildren who are carrying their

561
00:32:31,460 --> 00:32:29,820
fate who are living lives where they're

562
00:32:33,350 --> 00:32:31,470
walking around and instead of

563
00:32:35,780 --> 00:32:33,360
experiencing their own life they've got

564
00:32:38,210 --> 00:32:35,790
a huge block that really belongs to a

565
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:38,220
grandparent then that grandparent

566
00:32:43,700 --> 00:32:40,530
doesn't seem to go all the way into the

567
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:43,710
light that grandparent seems to stay in

568
00:32:49,430 --> 00:32:47,010
the astral or mental if whatever I would

569
00:32:52,220 --> 00:32:49,440
guess those if you want to talk that way

570
00:32:54,260 --> 00:32:52,230
and what we're doing in the

571
00:32:56,090 --> 00:32:54,270
constellation is lending our

572
00:32:58,720 --> 00:32:56,100
consciousness lending our

573
00:33:02,360 --> 00:32:58,730
lending our physical and etheric bodies

574
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:02,370
to these to these you know deceased

575
00:33:09,230 --> 00:33:06,690
people that aren't present and helping

576
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:09,240
them accept what happened to them

577
00:33:14,660 --> 00:33:12,090
and giving them some support and comfort

578
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:14,670
around what happened to them and thereby

579
00:33:20,210 --> 00:33:18,210
trying to free the client from carrying

580
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:20,220
it for them carrying the burden of the

581
00:33:25,070 --> 00:33:23,250
ancestor yes yes exactly

582
00:33:27,770 --> 00:33:25,080
and you seem to have success with this

583
00:33:30,380 --> 00:33:27,780
obviously it's it's I mean it doesn't

584
00:33:33,290 --> 00:33:30,390
work all the time yes it did the cancer

585
00:33:35,420 --> 00:33:33,300
disappeared within a couple months I

586
00:33:37,310 --> 00:33:35,430
have to say to be honest I believe it

587
00:33:39,290 --> 00:33:37,320
came back two or three years later and I

588
00:33:40,790 --> 00:33:39,300
wasn't involved in that but it did go

589
00:33:44,810 --> 00:33:40,800
away mm-hmm

590
00:33:47,090 --> 00:33:44,820
there are a lot of uncanny successes in

591
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:47,100
this work people are doing this all over

592
00:33:53,870 --> 00:33:50,610
the world literally all over the world

593
00:33:58,460 --> 00:33:53,880
it's it's still very it's not very

594
00:34:00,020 --> 00:33:58,470
organized people kind of you know

595
00:34:01,730 --> 00:34:00,030
there's no there's no professional

596
00:34:03,890 --> 00:34:01,740
Society in the United States yet or

597
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:03,900
anything like that there's there's one

598
00:34:08,690 --> 00:34:06,930
in in Europe the International systemic

599
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:08,700
constellation Association but it's

600
00:34:12,860 --> 00:34:10,530
fallen to pieces a couple times and then

601
00:34:17,720 --> 00:34:12,870
put back together again it's still very

602
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:17,730
new and Bert Hellinger is a kind of he's

603
00:34:23,780 --> 00:34:20,130
kind of like a mountain man he he will

604
00:34:26,330 --> 00:34:23,790
he just you know he explored but he's

605
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:26,340
not a great example for therapists to

606
00:34:31,100 --> 00:34:28,770
follow and he's not going to build roads

607
00:34:34,610 --> 00:34:31,110
for people did you understand me he's

608
00:34:37,940 --> 00:34:34,620
not going to help people get to the

609
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:37,950
place that he's gotten to let me ask a

610
00:34:45,170 --> 00:34:41,010
question about what do you do if there's

611
00:34:47,630 --> 00:34:45,180
somebody who has no family or very

612
00:34:51,050 --> 00:34:47,640
little family and has one of these

613
00:34:53,930 --> 00:34:51,060
problems yeah okay so I worked at one

614
00:34:55,970 --> 00:34:53,940
point with a Korean War baby and if you

615
00:34:58,070 --> 00:34:55,980
know what a Korean war baby is it's

616
00:35:00,950 --> 00:34:58,080
during the Korean War there were all

617
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:00,960
these parentless children who were

618
00:35:06,020 --> 00:35:03,930
shipped over to the United States they

619
00:35:08,780 --> 00:35:06,030
were orphans and they were called the

620
00:35:10,010 --> 00:35:08,790
Korean War babies so I did a

621
00:35:13,580 --> 00:35:10,020
constellation with

622
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:13,590
with a woman in her 30s several years

623
00:35:21,470 --> 00:35:18,450
ago who was a Korean War baby and you

624
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:21,480
know we didn't really know anything and

625
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:23,970
we just knew that she had an adopted

626
00:35:28,580 --> 00:35:26,010
family and we weren't interested in that

627
00:35:31,730 --> 00:35:28,590
at this point though in some cases we

628
00:35:33,590 --> 00:35:31,740
might be but we weren't so I said you

629
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:33,600
know we set up and this was a one-to-one

630
00:35:39,860 --> 00:35:36,690
constellation we set up an object person

631
00:35:43,130 --> 00:35:39,870
for her birth father and one for her

632
00:35:47,090 --> 00:35:43,140
birth mother and we took turns and went

633
00:35:49,190 --> 00:35:47,100
and stood and felt in to the father and

634
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:49,200
the mother and you get all kinds of

635
00:35:56,870 --> 00:35:52,530
different reactions he this is a this is

636
00:35:59,210 --> 00:35:56,880
a form of channeling and the reaction we

637
00:36:02,030 --> 00:35:59,220
both got without comparing them I mean I

638
00:36:03,830 --> 00:36:02,040
don't tell them what I am experiencing I

639
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:03,840
usually let the client tell me first

640
00:36:07,190 --> 00:36:05,850
because I don't want to impose you know

641
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:07,200
I'm the authority and I don't want to

642
00:36:12,380 --> 00:36:09,930
impose on them but we both felt that

643
00:36:15,530 --> 00:36:12,390
both parents were very very interested

644
00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:15,540
in this person they were not they were

645
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:18,000
not it's like they didn't get rid of her

646
00:36:24,860 --> 00:36:21,090
willingly or anything and at that point

647
00:36:27,290 --> 00:36:24,870
the client remembered that the only fact

648
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:27,300
that she knew and we hadn't said

649
00:36:32,900 --> 00:36:29,850
anything about this before the only fact

650
00:36:35,630 --> 00:36:32,910
that she knew was that they had left her

651
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:35,640
in a trash can right by the police

652
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:38,850
station and the client had always felt

653
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:41,490
like this meant that they had thrown her

654
00:36:48,110 --> 00:36:45,450
out and in the course of this you know

655
00:36:51,020 --> 00:36:48,120
feeling into the parents and feeling the

656
00:36:53,510 --> 00:36:51,030
energies of the parents that there was

657
00:36:56,930 --> 00:36:53,520
this huge cognitive shift in the client

658
00:36:59,420 --> 00:36:56,940
it was like oh my god my my parents

659
00:37:01,430 --> 00:36:59,430
loved me deeply and they could not take

660
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:01,440
care of me and the best they could do

661
00:37:08,330 --> 00:37:04,530
for me was put me where they knew the

662
00:37:11,630 --> 00:37:08,340
police would find me and she walked out

663
00:37:13,670 --> 00:37:11,640
of that constellation in some sense now

664
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:13,680
is this fact I mean I don't know what

665
00:37:19,460 --> 00:37:16,290
but it changed her does that make sense

666
00:37:20,740 --> 00:37:19,470
yes it does it makes a lot of sense it

667
00:37:24,210 --> 00:37:20,750
makes a lot of sense

668
00:37:27,180 --> 00:37:24,220
suddenly felt that she had been loved

669
00:37:28,650 --> 00:37:27,190
in a tragic and difficult situation I

670
00:37:32,670 --> 00:37:28,660
made all the difference in the world to

671
00:37:35,849 --> 00:37:32,680
her it makes a lot of sense and for some

672
00:37:39,210 --> 00:37:35,859
reason I I have to mention this even

673
00:37:43,140 --> 00:37:39,220
though it's a slightly off topic that in

674
00:37:46,109 --> 00:37:43,150
Japan in past generations it was

675
00:37:51,839 --> 00:37:46,119
considered extraordinarily unlucky to be

676
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:51,849
a twin and families often took one of

677
00:37:59,009 --> 00:37:56,410
the twins and gave them to a person who

678
00:38:02,460 --> 00:37:59,019
might be a farmer or in a rural

679
00:38:05,339 --> 00:38:02,470
neighborhood as a and gave them maybe

680
00:38:08,999 --> 00:38:05,349
some money or something to adopt the

681
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:09,009
twin and I've read some like very moving

682
00:38:15,029 --> 00:38:12,249
literature about what it's like to be

683
00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:15,039
one of the one of those rejected twins

684
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:18,400
in Japan that I believe the practices

685
00:38:25,229 --> 00:38:21,970
now stopped but it was going on up until

686
00:38:27,539 --> 00:38:25,239
let's say before the Second World War

687
00:38:29,279 --> 00:38:27,549
that's an aside and it doesn't exactly

688
00:38:30,930 --> 00:38:29,289
have to do with what you were saying but

689
00:38:33,390 --> 00:38:30,940
I couldn't help thinking of it when you

690
00:38:37,319 --> 00:38:33,400
were telling the story of the Korean War

691
00:38:41,430 --> 00:38:37,329
baby which was very moving do you want

692
00:38:44,759 --> 00:38:41,440
to mention anything about your website

693
00:38:48,210 --> 00:38:44,769
or maybe where people can take a look at

694
00:38:56,039 --> 00:38:48,220
a film of one of these constellations

695
00:39:07,140 --> 00:39:02,700
double DUI it's not re ad Y and you can

696
00:39:11,700 --> 00:39:07,150
see some people in Munich have put

697
00:39:14,700 --> 00:39:11,710
together a a cloud-based software system

698
00:39:16,289 --> 00:39:14,710
in which you have these 3d avatars that

699
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:16,299
you can use to set up remote

700
00:39:22,499 --> 00:39:18,249
constellations on both you and the

701
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:22,509
client can see these and so I have this

702
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:26,410
15 minute model of a constellation done

703
00:39:37,590 --> 00:39:30,249
with these 3d avatars and that's just

704
00:39:43,140 --> 00:39:37,600
that is at tiny URL right tiny URL STI

705
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:43,150
my url dot-com forward slash and then

706
00:39:49,590 --> 00:39:47,170
just constellation 3d its numeral three

707
00:39:52,670 --> 00:39:49,600
and D and that's that is probably the

708
00:39:55,590 --> 00:39:52,680
most compact picture of a constellation

709
00:39:58,110 --> 00:39:55,600
anywhere in the world that's on the web

710
00:40:01,350 --> 00:39:58,120
well that sounds like it would be really

711
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:01,360
good for our listeners because I think

712
00:40:07,980 --> 00:40:04,810
that they will then be able to more

713
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:07,990
clearly conceptualize what it is that

714
00:40:13,820 --> 00:40:11,170
happens don't you yeah I I think it's a

715
00:40:18,690 --> 00:40:13,830
very wonderful teaching tool frankly

716
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:18,700
okay so moving away from this just a

717
00:40:26,730 --> 00:40:21,370
little bit and talking a little bit

718
00:40:28,770 --> 00:40:26,740
about your work as a shaman a prior to

719
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:28,780
getting involved with the constellations

720
00:40:37,890 --> 00:40:31,810
which I realize can be seen as a form of

721
00:40:40,530 --> 00:40:37,900
shamanism in itself indeed yes so tell

722
00:40:45,810 --> 00:40:40,540
us about your training with a Sun Bear

723
00:40:49,710 --> 00:40:45,820
for instance I apprenticed formally to

724
00:40:58,110 --> 00:40:49,720
Sun bear in 1986 and was apprentice to

725
00:41:02,130 --> 00:40:58,120
him through 92 when he died I in 1989

726
00:41:04,290 --> 00:41:02,140
I organized and ran the something called

727
00:41:07,290 --> 00:41:04,300
the lower Hudson bear tribe Sun bears

728
00:41:09,660 --> 00:41:07,300
group was called a bear tribe right and

729
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:09,670
the lower Hudson bear tribe which we

730
00:41:12,570 --> 00:41:11,170
called it lower Hudson because we didn't

731
00:41:14,970 --> 00:41:12,580
want to use the word New York City

732
00:41:19,950 --> 00:41:14,980
mm-hmm but basically it was New York

733
00:41:22,170 --> 00:41:19,960
City based and and also it went up into

734
00:41:25,860 --> 00:41:22,180
the Catskills too so so it was lower

735
00:41:28,350 --> 00:41:25,870
Hudson but we we became the largest of

736
00:41:31,050 --> 00:41:28,360
the local groups we had a 500-person

737
00:41:35,720 --> 00:41:31,060
mailing list back in the 90s when it was

738
00:41:39,660 --> 00:41:35,730
really mail physical mail right and

739
00:41:43,530 --> 00:41:39,670
basically we had various elders come and

740
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:43,540
teach and I slowly learned to do various

741
00:41:50,070 --> 00:41:47,410
rituals and ceremonies and I have to say

742
00:41:51,779 --> 00:41:50,080
however though I was you know was an M

743
00:41:55,690 --> 00:41:51,789
mate all

744
00:42:00,309 --> 00:41:55,700
educated white man so there was always

745
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:00,319
some flak around me and and you probably

746
00:42:06,670 --> 00:42:02,210
know Sunbear was controversial too

747
00:42:08,740 --> 00:42:06,680
because he was one of the many Native

748
00:42:11,170 --> 00:42:08,750
American indigenous people who felt that

749
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:11,180
the medicine should be shared that it

750
00:42:15,519 --> 00:42:12,890
was too important that it was a

751
00:42:19,059 --> 00:42:15,529
spiritual legacy you know for the whole

752
00:42:21,430 --> 00:42:19,069
world and that if it wasn't shared it

753
00:42:25,380 --> 00:42:21,440
would it would not help save the planet

754
00:42:28,180 --> 00:42:25,390
and it would perhaps fail the other

755
00:42:32,470 --> 00:42:28,190
perspective on that which we heard

756
00:42:36,099 --> 00:42:32,480
constantly from many sources was you're

757
00:42:37,900 --> 00:42:36,109
stealing our religion that really

758
00:42:40,269 --> 00:42:37,910
doesn't make sense if I take a nickel

759
00:42:42,819 --> 00:42:40,279
from you you don't have it anymore

760
00:42:45,549 --> 00:42:42,829
but if I take your way of life and

761
00:42:48,789 --> 00:42:45,559
Sicily learn it and practice it and

762
00:42:52,240 --> 00:42:48,799
spread it you still have it and a lot of

763
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:52,250
other people have it too yes and I never

764
00:42:56,589 --> 00:42:54,170
made any money I'm not like Lynne

765
00:42:59,109 --> 00:42:56,599
what's-her-name who you know I'm not

766
00:43:01,269 --> 00:42:59,119
Carlos Castaneda I didn't ever write

767
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:01,279
books and you know I went bankrupt doing

768
00:43:14,799 --> 00:43:09,970
this frankly but it we you know we we we

769
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:14,809
brought a lot of elders I and some of

770
00:43:19,269 --> 00:43:17,210
them some of them you know I can names I

771
00:43:22,660 --> 00:43:19,279
can mention and others don't want their

772
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:22,670
names mentioned in in conjunction with

773
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:26,450
either me or Sunbear because there was

774
00:43:32,470 --> 00:43:29,450
just you know we were called the plastic

775
00:43:35,430 --> 00:43:32,480
medicine people out there may I ask you

776
00:43:39,099 --> 00:43:35,440
if there were a lot of Vietnam vets

777
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:39,109
involved in this group this lower Hudson

778
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:43,130
Sun bear group son there were some I

779
00:43:46,329 --> 00:43:45,410
wouldn't say a lot I can think of three

780
00:43:52,779 --> 00:43:46,339
offhand

781
00:43:57,609 --> 00:43:52,789
okay when in the 90s I was a student at

782
00:44:00,610 --> 00:43:57,619
jeevan mukti yoga studio run by David

783
00:44:03,580 --> 00:44:00,620
Lyfe and Sharon Gannon

784
00:44:06,100 --> 00:44:03,590
they had every once in a while every

785
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:06,110
couple of months or maybe as often as

786
00:44:12,940 --> 00:44:08,690
once a month from time to time a guest

787
00:44:17,820 --> 00:44:12,950
come to their yoga studio which was then

788
00:44:22,900 --> 00:44:17,830
on Second Avenue around ninth Street and

789
00:44:27,450 --> 00:44:22,910
one evening they had Sunbear there and I

790
00:44:31,900 --> 00:44:27,460
went to this gathering and I was

791
00:44:34,540 --> 00:44:31,910
interested in what he was doing and he

792
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:34,550
had a nice evening with some chanting

793
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:36,650
and drumming and some other stuff and he

794
00:44:42,910 --> 00:44:39,770
asked everybody to stand up and say

795
00:44:45,220 --> 00:44:42,920
where their ancestry was from I I never

796
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:45,230
understood why he wanted to know that

797
00:44:53,620 --> 00:44:51,170
but he did and then I liked it I was I

798
00:44:55,690 --> 00:44:53,630
thought he was a decent a very decent

799
00:44:58,480 --> 00:44:55,700
individual you know a very heartfelt

800
00:45:01,120 --> 00:44:58,490
indecent individual but I really didn't

801
00:45:06,700 --> 00:45:01,130
know what to think beyond that but when

802
00:45:08,890 --> 00:45:06,710
I got home from that event other people

803
00:45:10,210 --> 00:45:08,900
were going to be going out but I I don't

804
00:45:12,580 --> 00:45:10,220
know I didn't have the money or I didn't

805
00:45:14,770 --> 00:45:12,590
have the time or whatever and I kind of

806
00:45:17,830 --> 00:45:14,780
missed going out with the group but I

807
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:17,840
came back home and all of a sudden I

808
00:45:25,150 --> 00:45:21,890
found myself running around my living

809
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:25,160
room in circles just running around I

810
00:45:32,230 --> 00:45:28,610
had to do it it sounds sort of crazy but

811
00:45:35,860 --> 00:45:32,240
it was as though this energy was

812
00:45:38,740 --> 00:45:35,870
transmitted to me in some way that I

813
00:45:41,350 --> 00:45:38,750
cannot to this day explain I mean I can

814
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:41,360
explain it but I can't really say for

815
00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:43,610
certainty that that's what happened but

816
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:48,730
this is not not my my normal way of

817
00:45:55,210 --> 00:45:52,130
acting I don't generally run around my

818
00:45:57,340 --> 00:45:55,220
living room kind of in circles sort of

819
00:45:59,860 --> 00:45:57,350
whooping it up a little bit and it was

820
00:46:03,730 --> 00:45:59,870
no music nothing I do dance and I enjoy

821
00:46:06,010 --> 00:46:03,740
dancing but this was just hours at least

822
00:46:10,170 --> 00:46:06,020
two hours of running around in a circle

823
00:46:13,750 --> 00:46:10,180
basically and I'm not generally hyper

824
00:46:14,410 --> 00:46:13,760
can I ask you a question sure so how

825
00:46:19,750 --> 00:46:14,420
were you feel

826
00:46:22,269 --> 00:46:19,760
as this happened a little bit excited a

827
00:46:25,210 --> 00:46:22,279
little bit just filled with energy

828
00:46:27,490 --> 00:46:25,220
really it's it's all about energy I was

829
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:27,500
filled with energy I did not feel

830
00:46:32,740 --> 00:46:30,650
unhappy I wouldn't say I felt in any way

831
00:46:35,890 --> 00:46:32,750
sad but I wouldn't say that I was

832
00:46:37,870 --> 00:46:35,900
exactly joyous but I was more on the

833
00:46:39,970 --> 00:46:37,880
positive side of the needle than the

834
00:46:43,569 --> 00:46:39,980
negative side of the needle but I just

835
00:46:46,599 --> 00:46:43,579
thought as a person who obviously knew

836
00:46:49,990 --> 00:46:46,609
Sunbear you might be able to shed some

837
00:46:52,390 --> 00:46:50,000
light on this conundrum of mine well I

838
00:46:53,650 --> 00:46:52,400
mean a couple things come to mind can

839
00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:53,660
may I ask you another question

840
00:46:58,990 --> 00:46:57,170
oh yeah which hand was towards the

841
00:47:02,829 --> 00:46:59,000
center of the circle your right hand or

842
00:47:06,519 --> 00:47:02,839
your left hand do you remember you know

843
00:47:10,259 --> 00:47:06,529
I believe my right hand was but I to say

844
00:47:14,349 --> 00:47:10,269
that I knew that that I know that now

845
00:47:18,009 --> 00:47:14,359
twenty odd years later would be saying

846
00:47:22,839 --> 00:47:18,019
as much you know almost all indigenous

847
00:47:25,950 --> 00:47:22,849
societies dance around a fire you can go

848
00:47:30,190 --> 00:47:25,960
to neo pagan festivals to this day and

849
00:47:32,230 --> 00:47:30,200
you you'll get big fires at night with a

850
00:47:35,170 --> 00:47:32,240
lot of drummers and a lot of dancers and

851
00:47:37,740 --> 00:47:35,180
they're they're typically moving sunwise

852
00:47:40,240 --> 00:47:37,750
that is to say with their right hand

853
00:47:43,349 --> 00:47:40,250
towards the center of the circle or

854
00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:43,359
towards the fire around the circle so

855
00:47:48,249 --> 00:47:46,250
the form I mean the first thing that

856
00:47:51,249 --> 00:47:48,259
strikes me is the form of what you were

857
00:47:52,839 --> 00:47:51,259
doing is an indigenous dance form I

858
00:47:55,210 --> 00:47:52,849
don't know I mean what are you really

859
00:47:57,460 --> 00:47:55,220
running or were you you were moving

860
00:48:00,279 --> 00:47:57,470
quickly I was moving quickly

861
00:48:02,890 --> 00:48:00,289
I went from I think sometimes I was

862
00:48:05,049 --> 00:48:02,900
actually running but I I don't

863
00:48:07,990 --> 00:48:05,059
you've seen me Michael and you know that

864
00:48:12,460 --> 00:48:08,000
I'm not exactly Swift in my my movements

865
00:48:14,829 --> 00:48:12,470
so I wasn't really fast running fast if

866
00:48:18,009 --> 00:48:14,839
I was running but it was I felt

867
00:48:22,059 --> 00:48:18,019
compelled to do it and this is not my

868
00:48:26,589 --> 00:48:22,069
normal behavior I am by and large a very

869
00:48:28,329 --> 00:48:26,599
spiritual but not a joiner per se and it

870
00:48:31,029 --> 00:48:28,339
was an unusual

871
00:48:33,910 --> 00:48:31,039
variance for me let me say that one more

872
00:48:35,650 --> 00:48:33,920
question sure as long as I get to say no

873
00:48:36,479 --> 00:48:35,660
if I don't want to answer no go ahead

874
00:48:40,180 --> 00:48:36,489
Michael

875
00:48:47,759 --> 00:48:40,190
what is your ethnicity what is your

876
00:48:51,309 --> 00:48:47,769
ancestry at Northern European okay just

877
00:48:54,759 --> 00:48:51,319
unfortunately not not any Native

878
00:48:58,539 --> 00:48:54,769
American at all as far as you know the

879
00:49:02,229 --> 00:48:58,549
the people at the at the genome testing

880
00:49:03,999 --> 00:49:02,239
thing tell me well there's there's two

881
00:49:07,630 --> 00:49:04,009
ways to look at this Native American

882
00:49:10,359 --> 00:49:07,640
thing right I don't think that the souls

883
00:49:12,729 --> 00:49:10,369
that were incarnated into Native

884
00:49:15,519 --> 00:49:12,739
American bodies two three four hundred

885
00:49:18,099 --> 00:49:15,529
years ago are the same kind of souls

886
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:18,109
that are incarnated into Native American

887
00:49:25,089 --> 00:49:21,170
bodies now and I don't know what sort of

888
00:49:28,709 --> 00:49:25,099
past life stuff you have but but you're

889
00:49:33,759 --> 00:49:28,719
you were doing an indigenous dance form

890
00:49:38,890 --> 00:49:33,769
somehow compulsively and I find that

891
00:49:41,890 --> 00:49:38,900
first of all fascinating and you know

892
00:49:44,739 --> 00:49:41,900
we'll we'll see if I can't feel into

893
00:49:46,599 --> 00:49:44,749
that a little bit okay I practice I do

894
00:49:48,670 --> 00:49:46,609
something called slow intuition people

895
00:49:50,709 --> 00:49:48,680
asked me questions about a dream or

896
00:49:52,660 --> 00:49:50,719
something and I say well give me a

897
00:49:54,459 --> 00:49:52,670
little bit sometimes that means sleeping

898
00:49:57,819 --> 00:49:54,469
on it overnight I sit on these things

899
00:50:01,209 --> 00:49:57,829
like eggs and they hatch the symbols

900
00:50:03,940 --> 00:50:01,219
hatch out indeed indeed I do know what

901
00:50:06,339 --> 00:50:03,950
you're saying and I just wanted to throw

902
00:50:09,819 --> 00:50:06,349
that out there because of my one

903
00:50:12,459 --> 00:50:09,829
connection with mr. Sun bear there who

904
00:50:15,430 --> 00:50:12,469
is no longer with us I believe and sadly

905
00:50:18,099 --> 00:50:15,440
missed well I mean you obviously were

906
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:18,109
energized and second of all you were

907
00:50:25,930 --> 00:50:21,890
moving in a sacred circle yes so that

908
00:50:28,329 --> 00:50:25,940
much we can say what else that had to do

909
00:50:30,519 --> 00:50:28,339
with anything I don't know at this point

910
00:50:33,459 --> 00:50:30,529
but it's fascinating well we can take

911
00:50:35,890 --> 00:50:33,469
this up at a later date you know but I

912
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:35,900
thought that maybe the our listeners

913
00:50:40,539 --> 00:50:37,729
would find that to be kind of an

914
00:50:42,190 --> 00:50:40,549
interesting experience because it was I

915
00:50:44,700 --> 00:50:42,200
would describe it

916
00:50:50,319 --> 00:50:44,710
an unexpected transmission of energy

917
00:50:52,420 --> 00:50:50,329
yeah I hear you well I just to get back

918
00:50:54,730 --> 00:50:52,430
to the healing aspect of this I mean

919
00:50:58,930 --> 00:50:54,740
certainly psychosomatic medicine has

920
00:51:01,540 --> 00:50:58,940
some I guess some belief within modern

921
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:01,550
medicine and it seems like I mean to use

922
00:51:08,230 --> 00:51:05,290
a really trite term mind over matter and

923
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:08,240
as someone who has absolutely no

924
00:51:13,930 --> 00:51:12,050
experiences to the different modalities

925
00:51:18,790 --> 00:51:13,940
that you're speaking about it just

926
00:51:24,339 --> 00:51:18,800
strikes me as being something of giving

927
00:51:26,710 --> 00:51:24,349
a person not an excuse but like no not a

928
00:51:31,020 --> 00:51:26,720
message just relieving them the

929
00:51:34,380 --> 00:51:31,030
responsibility of not adhering to a

930
00:51:38,170 --> 00:51:34,390
modality that they are familiar with but

931
00:51:42,540 --> 00:51:38,180
actually utilizing something other than

932
00:51:45,370 --> 00:51:42,550
that but sort of freeing themselves from

933
00:51:47,500 --> 00:51:45,380
the bondage of Western medicine if you

934
00:51:50,370 --> 00:51:47,510
will but you know certainly of the mind

935
00:51:53,079 --> 00:51:50,380
does have a lot of ability to heal and

936
00:51:55,359 --> 00:51:53,089
most of us don't believe that it does

937
00:51:58,559 --> 00:51:55,369
and I think what you're doing is freeing

938
00:52:01,089 --> 00:51:58,569
that up and allowing us to believe

939
00:52:05,380 --> 00:52:01,099
that's what strikes me from what you've

940
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:05,390
been saying um I have to apologize

941
00:52:19,420 --> 00:52:08,450
because Kate your voice oh I'm sorry I'm

942
00:52:22,210 --> 00:52:19,430
sorry is that better let me say this I I

943
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:22,220
think that mm-hmm it's people's belief

944
00:52:29,470 --> 00:52:26,170
systems are are very powerful in healing

945
00:52:31,270 --> 00:52:29,480
the placebo effect has gotten to the

946
00:52:35,020 --> 00:52:31,280
point now where people are realizing

947
00:52:38,260 --> 00:52:35,030
that they need to study it and and that

948
00:52:39,970 --> 00:52:38,270
it so like and I work with people I work

949
00:52:43,030 --> 00:52:39,980
with some people who are very much into

950
00:52:45,250 --> 00:52:43,040
mainstream medicine and then I am you

951
00:52:47,890 --> 00:52:45,260
know I I try to help them with that and

952
00:52:50,530 --> 00:52:47,900
I try to help them avoid the structural

953
00:52:53,260 --> 00:52:50,540
problems of mainstream medicine like you

954
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:53,270
know too many cover-your-ass tests and

955
00:52:57,810 --> 00:52:54,970
things like this

956
00:53:00,840 --> 00:52:57,820
but you know I mean you probably know

957
00:53:03,140 --> 00:53:00,850
that there are many just amazing

958
00:53:07,260 --> 00:53:03,150
experiences that have been written up of

959
00:53:08,790 --> 00:53:07,270
people who's you know plus able cures I

960
00:53:11,610 --> 00:53:08,800
mean the one in particular is the guy

961
00:53:14,670 --> 00:53:11,620
who was given a drug that was supposed

962
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:14,680
to be some brand new drug and and was

963
00:53:19,650 --> 00:53:16,810
supposed to be miraculous and it cured

964
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:19,660
him of cancer and then he read he read a

965
00:53:27,270 --> 00:53:22,090
newspaper a few months later that said

966
00:53:29,700 --> 00:53:27,280
oh no then this is theirs so then the

967
00:53:33,150 --> 00:53:29,710
doctor found out that no he hadn't given

968
00:53:35,250 --> 00:53:33,160
him the miracle drug then he got cancer

969
00:53:37,470 --> 00:53:35,260
the cancer came back so this time he

970
00:53:39,750 --> 00:53:37,480
gave him the miracle drug and the cancer

971
00:53:42,420 --> 00:53:39,760
went away and then a few years later

972
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:42,430
they found out that now this drug really

973
00:53:46,260 --> 00:53:44,530
wasn't a miracle drug and it didn't do

974
00:53:48,750 --> 00:53:46,270
it and the cancer came back and he died

975
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:48,760
there were three different well

976
00:53:52,710 --> 00:53:50,170
that's what I'm saying I think what you

977
00:53:54,810 --> 00:53:52,720
do is just allow people to have their

978
00:53:57,300 --> 00:53:54,820
face that they can cure themselves I

979
00:53:59,700 --> 00:53:57,310
think most of us don't believe what

980
00:54:02,490 --> 00:53:59,710
you're saying because it we just haven't

981
00:54:05,580 --> 00:54:02,500
been taught to think along those lines

982
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:05,590
and when you do start thinking along

983
00:54:12,060 --> 00:54:09,970
those lines it does allow you to free up

984
00:54:14,790 --> 00:54:12,070
all the abilities that you've had to

985
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:14,800
cure and I think what you've been doing

986
00:54:22,580 --> 00:54:16,570
and what other people have been doing is

987
00:54:28,230 --> 00:54:25,560
okay I'm closer to the microphone

988
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:28,240
I would totally agree with you and I can

989
00:54:35,060 --> 00:54:29,530
hear you much better now I don't know

990
00:54:37,980 --> 00:54:35,070
what you did it's a powerful thing yeah

991
00:54:40,350 --> 00:54:37,990
you know like even Christian Science is

992
00:54:42,720 --> 00:54:40,360
fine but you know it's like you really

993
00:54:46,050 --> 00:54:42,730
have to believe I mean you can't just

994
00:54:49,410 --> 00:54:46,060
say well this is or you know like even a

995
00:54:51,030 --> 00:54:49,420
shaman you have to believe and then

996
00:54:52,650 --> 00:54:51,040
there are some things that cannot be

997
00:54:55,860 --> 00:54:52,660
cured there are actually physical

998
00:55:02,730 --> 00:54:55,870
problems I mean if I have an appendix

999
00:55:04,830 --> 00:55:02,740
attack I'm definitely going surgery okay

1000
00:55:06,850 --> 00:55:04,840
well that makes sense that makes a

1001
00:55:12,060 --> 00:55:06,860
license

1002
00:55:15,370 --> 00:55:12,070
work with chronic illness and and I do

1003
00:55:17,710 --> 00:55:15,380
what I loose Lee call acute illnesses

1004
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:17,720
then you go to mainstream medicine for

1005
00:55:22,990 --> 00:55:21,410
that and there was also something else

1006
00:55:27,460 --> 00:55:23,000
but I can't think of it right now it got

1007
00:55:30,630 --> 00:55:27,470
lost all of a sudden in any case now you

1008
00:55:32,500 --> 00:55:30,640
know we were gonna share there's one

1009
00:55:34,930 --> 00:55:32,510
there's one thing I'd like to say about

1010
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:34,940
this constellation work in terms of

1011
00:55:45,700 --> 00:55:42,170
shamanism think about this a second if

1012
00:55:48,220 --> 00:55:45,710
if I take us some objects and I have the

1013
00:55:51,250 --> 00:55:48,230
client distribute them around the an

1014
00:55:56,980 --> 00:55:51,260
open floor of a room and we use that as

1015
00:56:01,810 --> 00:55:56,990
a as a starting point yeah that's a form

1016
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:01,820
of divination the essential essentially

1017
00:56:05,740 --> 00:56:04,130
where we're laying out you know and my

1018
00:56:07,450 --> 00:56:05,750
teachers the way my teachers would talk

1019
00:56:11,140 --> 00:56:07,460
they say oh you called spirits into

1020
00:56:13,290 --> 00:56:11,150
those objects and that's fine I mean I

1021
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:13,300
could talk that way too but I

1022
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:16,850
western-educated boy I tend to say those

1023
00:56:23,350 --> 00:56:18,890
objects have come into resonance with

1024
00:56:25,570 --> 00:56:23,360
something unseen but that's you you you

1025
00:56:27,610 --> 00:56:25,580
know if a client the only way a client

1026
00:56:31,090 --> 00:56:27,620
can mess this up is that if they try to

1027
00:56:33,130 --> 00:56:31,100
make an intellectual pattern they mess

1028
00:56:34,450 --> 00:56:33,140
it up immediately like if they're if our

1029
00:56:38,140 --> 00:56:34,460
minds know the answer we wouldn't be

1030
00:56:40,690 --> 00:56:38,150
doing this so random is better than that

1031
00:56:42,970 --> 00:56:40,700
anything you think up in terms of laying

1032
00:56:46,270 --> 00:56:42,980
this pattern out that's like divination

1033
00:56:49,630 --> 00:56:46,280
and if a constellation works which

1034
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:49,640
requires respect and patience and a

1035
00:56:55,630 --> 00:56:52,490
careful effort to preserve the resonance

1036
00:56:57,850 --> 00:56:55,640
that has begun to exist between either

1037
00:57:01,480 --> 00:56:57,860
the people who are representing in

1038
00:57:03,490 --> 00:57:01,490
workshop or the object persons and

1039
00:57:06,070 --> 00:57:03,500
that's my language given that are

1040
00:57:09,670 --> 00:57:06,080
representing on the floor in a private

1041
00:57:13,270 --> 00:57:09,680
session that is just what to compare my

1042
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:13,280
concern just going to say that in my

1043
00:57:18,850 --> 00:57:15,770
mind especially what you're doing when

1044
00:57:20,770 --> 00:57:18,860
you're doing your the constellations as

1045
00:57:24,310 --> 00:57:20,780
a family alters sort of

1046
00:57:27,940 --> 00:57:24,320
situation that it is clearly sympathetic

1047
00:57:30,130 --> 00:57:27,950
magic when you're using the people it

1048
00:57:33,910 --> 00:57:30,140
then it becomes more like a channeling

1049
00:57:38,020 --> 00:57:33,920
thing yeah so would you like to give

1050
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:38,030
your where people can reach you and

1051
00:57:42,550 --> 00:57:40,250
maybe repeat the name of your book and

1052
00:57:44,980 --> 00:57:42,560
your website and all of that stuff

1053
00:57:52,870 --> 00:57:44,990
because we're drawing to a close at this

1054
00:57:54,820 --> 00:57:52,880
juncture certainly yes yeah let me just

1055
00:57:56,470 --> 00:57:54,830
let me just give a quick definition of

1056
00:57:59,620 --> 00:57:56,480
sympathetic magic if I may I mean

1057
00:58:01,510 --> 00:57:59,630
sympathetic sympathetic magic means that

1058
00:58:05,890 --> 00:58:01,520
we've established some kind of resonance

1059
00:58:07,380 --> 00:58:05,900
between objects and other you know think

1060
00:58:12,100 --> 00:58:07,390
of the voodoo doll or something right

1061
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:12,110
and what what we're doing is it we reach

1062
00:58:16,660 --> 00:58:14,450
we reach the point if we're careful and

1063
00:58:19,870 --> 00:58:16,670
respectful and and have a certain belief

1064
00:58:23,380 --> 00:58:19,880
in this where what we do to the objects

1065
00:58:28,420 --> 00:58:23,390
goes into the unseen and bubbles up in

1066
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:28,430
reality someplace else and how to reach

1067
00:58:31,570 --> 00:58:28,730
me

1068
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:31,580
you know I'm Mike already you can always

1069
00:58:37,780 --> 00:58:34,370
call me on the phone at six one oh four

1070
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:37,790
six nine seven five eight eight I'm

1071
00:59:07,530 --> 00:58:40,970
located right near Philadelphia just

1072
00:59:07,540 --> 00:59:13,570
www.antakungfu.com

1073
00:59:13,580 --> 00:59:34,599
[Music]

1074
00:59:39,999 --> 00:59:37,210
the camera all over the place over these

1075
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:40,009
3d figures and you can't you can't do

1076
00:59:44,829 --> 00:59:42,890
this you can't do this you know with a

1077
00:59:46,690 --> 00:59:44,839
live constellation you can go to youtube

1078
00:59:49,420 --> 00:59:46,700
and see a lot of live constellations but

1079
00:59:55,269 --> 00:59:49,430
there they take two hours and there you

1080
00:59:58,960 --> 00:59:55,279
can't you can't really see the health

1081
01:00:03,430 --> 00:59:58,970
happiness family constellations how

1082
01:00:06,210 --> 01:00:03,440
ancestors family systems yeah lt's shape

1083
01:00:09,579 --> 01:00:06,220
your life and what you can do about it

1084
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:09,589
thank you so much Michael ready dr.

1085
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:11,690
Michael ready you've been a lovely guest

1086
01:00:17,529 --> 01:00:14,690
and we very much enjoyed your music at

1087
01:00:19,779 --> 01:00:17,539
the beginning it was excellent and thank

1088
01:00:23,019 --> 01:00:19,789
you for all your work in helping people

1089
01:00:25,749 --> 01:00:23,029
to that's a very very nice thing for you

1090
01:00:28,690 --> 01:00:25,759
have done and hopefully if you have

1091
01:00:30,849 --> 01:00:28,700
descendants they will inherit all your

1092
01:00:40,210 --> 01:00:30,859
good works and none of your bad works

1093
01:00:43,150 --> 01:00:40,220
amen oh all right here I can't be any

1094
01:00:46,150 --> 01:00:43,160
closer you'll have to hear the nice

1095
01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:46,160
words that Kate has said to you when

1096
01:01:01,180 --> 01:00:59,049
okay listen thank you both very much

1097
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:01,190
I've enjoyed this immensely it's an

1098
01:01:05,650 --> 01:01:04,130
honor to be here and I think the work

1099
01:01:09,700 --> 01:01:05,660
you guys are doing is wonderful I've

1100
01:01:13,089 --> 01:01:09,710
listened thank you very much and we

1101
01:01:15,420 --> 01:01:13,099
shall body work okay take care take care

1102
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:15,430
now bye bye

1103
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:20,450
so who's very interesting show I really

1104
01:01:27,059 --> 01:01:23,690
it was a little bit complex and I hope

1105
01:01:30,519 --> 01:01:27,069
that our listeners like look into it and

1106
01:01:32,799 --> 01:01:30,529
yeah because it's too complex a subject

1107
01:01:35,259 --> 01:01:32,809
just to brush over I have to actually

1108
01:01:38,499 --> 01:01:35,269
look into it read about it but it's nice

1109
01:01:39,519 --> 01:01:38,509
to be aware that it exists and that's

1110
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:39,529
the important thing

1111
01:01:44,170 --> 01:01:41,690
yes maybe it'll help somebody out there

1112
01:01:47,170 --> 01:01:44,180
and maybe they'll look into just what

1113
01:01:48,460 --> 01:01:47,180
Michael was speaking about by looking at

1114
01:01:51,130 --> 01:01:48,470
his website and

1115
01:01:53,050 --> 01:01:51,140
going to the to the URL with or getting

1116
01:01:57,550 --> 01:01:53,060
his book let's push the book push the

1117
01:02:00,339 --> 01:01:57,560
book family constellations how ancestors

1118
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:00,349
family systems and hidden loyalties

1119
01:02:07,180 --> 01:02:03,050
shape your life and what you can do

1120
01:02:09,670 --> 01:02:07,190
about it Michael J Reddy PhD and I

1121
01:02:11,589 --> 01:02:09,680
wanted to ask him now that it's done

1122
01:02:14,770 --> 01:02:11,599
unfortunately I remembered that I wanted

1123
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:14,780
to ask him about a constellation where

1124
01:02:20,380 --> 01:02:18,050
an ancestor prior to this had been

1125
01:02:23,410 --> 01:02:20,390
unknown to the person aside from just

1126
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:23,420
the Korean War baby one which I mean she

1127
01:02:27,370 --> 01:02:25,250
knew she had a mother and father so but

1128
01:02:30,010 --> 01:02:27,380
where something came up but we'll we'll

1129
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:30,020
save that for next time he's speaking of

1130
01:02:37,599 --> 01:02:34,730
next time this Valentine this our next

1131
01:02:41,790 --> 01:02:37,609
show mm-hmm will feature two

1132
01:02:45,550 --> 01:02:41,800
accomplished ladies okay one of whom is

1133
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:45,560
Nancy Smith who works with the

1134
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:48,890
International remote viewers Association

1135
01:02:55,470 --> 01:02:52,130
and who has also attended the Monroe

1136
01:03:02,430 --> 01:02:55,480
Institute and she's attended classes

1137
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:05,440
all of a sudden I can't think of the

1138
01:03:11,290 --> 01:03:09,170
man's first name Dean Dean ready no I'm

1139
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:11,300
not doing writing Schwartz of the

1140
01:03:16,510 --> 01:03:13,730
Schwartz report I can't be sorry well

1141
01:03:17,290 --> 01:03:16,520
but mr. Schwartz mr. Schwartz yes it's

1142
01:03:20,260 --> 01:03:17,300
just weird

1143
01:03:22,420 --> 01:03:20,270
it's old age I think but in any case

1144
01:03:26,349 --> 01:03:22,430
there may be an ancestor blocking you

1145
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:26,359
maybe Nancy Smith Nancy Smith is coming

1146
01:03:31,540 --> 01:03:28,130
on and talking about

1147
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:31,550
amongst other things remote viewing and

1148
01:03:40,870 --> 01:03:35,810
dreaming and then we have one

1149
01:03:45,730 --> 01:03:40,880
Lucina Stone who has written a book

1150
01:03:49,060 --> 01:03:45,740
called Santa where they and she is a

1151
01:03:52,329 --> 01:03:49,070
regular listener to shattered reality

1152
01:03:55,270 --> 01:03:52,339
podcast didn't we have someone with

1153
01:03:58,810 --> 01:03:55,280
santa wart what we did have two people

1154
01:04:01,090 --> 01:03:58,820
yeah I discussed these things that go on

1155
01:04:04,050 --> 01:04:01,100
in Latin America mmm one of

1156
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:04,060
whom was Andrew chestnut right who is a

1157
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:07,730
professor of religion at a university in

1158
01:04:13,180 --> 01:04:09,770
Virginia with the name of which

1159
01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:13,190
currently escapes me and the other of

1160
01:04:19,570 --> 01:04:16,130
whom was cm Mayo who was talking about

1161
01:04:21,790 --> 01:04:19,580
spiritism and the Mexican Revolution so

1162
01:04:25,420 --> 01:04:21,800
while these things are not quite the

1163
01:04:27,820 --> 01:04:25,430
same they do feed into this and I can

1164
01:04:30,730 --> 01:04:27,830
only hope that miss Lucina Stone who is

1165
01:04:36,250 --> 01:04:30,740
our regular listener was was somehow

1166
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:36,260
inspired by our podcast in some of her

1167
01:04:41,410 --> 01:04:38,090
fictional writing which is quite

1168
01:04:44,110 --> 01:04:41,420
impressive so she's going to be in on

1169
01:04:46,390 --> 01:04:44,120
the show in the the second part of it

1170
01:04:48,220 --> 01:04:46,400
which is our listeners corner but in

1171
01:04:50,830 --> 01:04:48,230
this case our listener is very

1172
01:04:56,380 --> 01:04:50,840
accomplished certainly most of them are

1173
01:05:00,450 --> 01:04:56,390
yes yes they are so I think that's it